- the habit or principle of being independent and self-reliant.
- a social theory favoring freedom of action for individuals over collective or state control.
Collectivism (n.)
- the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it.
Read "Of Me I Sing: Americans Construct An Opt-Out Society," an article from NPR that briefly explores the on-going conflict between individualism and collectivism currently occuring in American society.
What are your thoughts?
Leave a comment on this post by midnight, Wednesday, April 2nd.
Be thoughtful and original!
Individualism and collectivism. Two completely different thoughts. Both can be good, and both can be bad. I think that culture influences where a person is placed. And based on that, we can tell which one is good and which one is bad.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, there is no good or bad. In Asian societies, collectivism is upheld heavily over individualism. For example, lets take India and China into consideration. Both countries are infested with people who want to make the most of life and...resources. The citizens of both countries want there children to be doctors or engineers, maybe even law if the families hold some royal power still. In the Indian and Chinese family unit, the mother and the father work their but off at work or at home trying to educate their children as much as possible with the most comfy environment at their houses (let's try excluding the 100 million or two hopeless and homeless individuals). They try cramming their children's minds with medicine or Harvard, and how if they don't get into Harvard, they will be better off working at 7-11 or living with there parents again after college. Most, if not all Indian and Chinese parents do this. They are all in this ideology together. Most of the time, the Indian or Chinese kid's parents don't want to hear their children say they want to form a band underneath their parents' basement, or be like Weezer or Eminem, or go to Firefly. The children that DO say these things end up being the outcasts of Asian society most of the time (I'm not trying to be racist, I'm just trying to use a true stereotype as a good example for what I feel).
Surprisingly this blog post was irritating. Most of your "facts" seem to be based off of racial stereotypes. Are these "superior" Asian/ Indian societies are AMERICAN? You start out basing this from out of the U.S and then bring it back to America. This is absolutely absurd and unsettling. " or be like Weezer or Eminem, or go to Firefly." Three completely incomparable topics...what even are you trying to say. I dont know where you came up with this idea of these kinds of lifestyles but i have plenty of friends who have tried to become like Weezer or Eminem...and I know you have never been to a concert but take my word that there are plenty of Asians and Indians there and their parents didnt blink an eye when they asked for permision. This is because their parents support them.Just because of your race doesnt mean your parenting skills change. If we continued down this path we would all just assume my dad's an Irish drunk who beats me until clean the dishes. But he's not, fortunately. I dont believe that you should tie in entire races of people because you think it relates to your life. Completely unfair and biased.
Delete" Most, if not all Indian and Chinese parents do this." Okay Kartik I challenge you. Do a survey to see if that quote is correct. most if not all...smh
DeleteI was using a true collectivist stereotype to answer the blog question. It is my opinion, and opinions aren't right or wrong. I'm going off my experiences. I'm just getting my opinion and answer out, just like Mr. Clark said.
DeleteAlso, I appreciate you for reading my blog post. I don't intend to be rude or anything, if it came out like that. Thanks for your consideration.
Deletekartic you are basing your stereotypes off an Indian subculture that lives in America today, not in the true countries of India and china. it sounds very arrogant, look at things from a perspective that doesn't revolve around you and you will see the world in a different way... kartic this is just my opinion of your response
Deletewhat is life?
Deletelife
Deletelīf/noun
1.
the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.
"the origins of life"
synonyms: existence, being, living, animation; More
dedicate oneself, devote oneself, give oneself, surrender oneself
antonyms: death, nonexistence
living things and their activity.
"some sort of life existed on Mars"
synonyms: living things, living beings, living creatures, the living; More
a particular type or aspect of people's existence.
plural noun: lives
"an experienced teacher will help you settle into school life"
synonyms: way of life, lifestyle, situation, fate, lot More
vitality, vigor, or energy.
"she was beautiful and full of life"
synonyms: vivacity, animation, liveliness, vitality, verve, high spirits, exuberance, zest, buoyancy, enthusiasm, energy, vigor, dynamism, elan, gusto, brio, bounce, spirit, fire; More
2.
the existence of an individual human being or animal.
"a disaster that claimed the lives of 266 Americans"
synonyms: person, human being, individual, soul
Come on Clark, you didn't even let me post my actual response yet but, I did get a laugh out of this, thank you hahaha
DeleteI'm not done my post yet.
ReplyDeleteNow, in my example, the collectivism is the Chinese and Indian families in those countries. The individualism is the ideology of the outcasts. Now, we can't make judgements about people like this.
ReplyDeleteAs I said before, there is no good or bad in collectivism or individualism (This is new info) and, collectivism and individualism can't be good or bad (I said this before). It all goes back to perspective. Americans as a whole, don't like to send there children to medicine without their children's opinion.They don't like this collectivism. But in Asia, people don't like the individualism. There are no cops or robbers here. They are just certain ideas and beliefs of certain people.
Now take this back to the article from NPR.
Yes, Eastern cultures emphasize collectivism much more than the individual-oriented Western societies.
DeleteRugged American individualism: we all think we are DIY cowboys. There's a stereotype.
I'm still not done yet Mr. Clark. Heads up my response will not be final till Tuesday.
ReplyDeleteI find the whole "Individualistic v. Collectivism" argument very amusing. Not because of the ideals of both factions; to each their own, as they say. It is the inherent irony of the situation as a whole, however, that amuses me. Ponder this: what exactly is the individual? The individual is you, the whole of you, everything that is you and no one else. Yet a collection consists of individuals grouped into that collection.
ReplyDeleteAmerica tends to lean on the individualist side, as evidenced by the NPR article. The virtue of individualism is imbued within the American people; we feel that standing out as an individual is a right that is bestowed upon us. The very pioneers of our great nation, the pilgrims, brought over their individualistic values, seeking religious freedoms from the governments of their homeland. The fundamental laws that govern our nation individualistic values directly built into them: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, etc.
I, myself, subscribe to the individualistic point of view. I feel that, to truly fulfill one's role in society, they must first fulfill themselves, as an individual. As the great Nietzsche once said, "To create values - that even the lion cannot do; but the creation of freedom for oneself for new creation - that is within the power of the lion... but say, my brothers, what can the child do that even the lion could not do? Why must the preying lion still become a child? the child is innocence and forgetting, a new beginning, a game, a self-propelled wheel, a first movement, a sacred 'Yes.'" This was when Nietzsche was discussing the metamorphoses that the soul must undergo - first, a camel, eager to bear its burden, venturing far into the lonely desert of introspective thought; next, a lion, who aims to conquer his own freedom and to fight his own personal god; and finally, a child, birthed after the battle between lion and personal god. The child marks the true creation of one's freedom.
In layman's terms, Nietzsche is stating that one must conquer the previous boundaries of one's passion. An example would be Beethoven, who created new norms with his works. And this is where the individualistic virtues come back in; one must conquer themselves before they can submit to a collection of individuals.
And there's my two cents on this subject.
Ayn Rand
DeleteTaking it back from the NPR article, idealism may lead to collectivism because more and more people start to agree with each other, like the vaccines. This shows that idealism is more important and potent than collectivism. Basically, idealism is the fuel of collectivism, something I have been trying to show through my examples.
ReplyDeleteThis is America, its in our blood to opt out. We were the first to opt out of British rule with the birth of a new idea called self rule, where you could practice your business, free of government interference, entanglement, and regulation. After the birth of self rule, came the lightening rod, bifocals, the cup cake, the synthesizer, the phonograph, the telephone, the airplane, ect. Its a never ending list. All because of some ambition to excel for individual gain.
ReplyDeleteTom V on vaccinations, personal experience...
This is what I know of vaccinations, my mother has only had me injected with the absolute mandatory vaccinations, the ones I can opt of out, I opted out of. I cant remember the last time I threw up because of a stomach virus, the last time I had the flu, or chicken pox. Did I ever get the flu vaccine? No. Did I ever get the chicken pox vaccine? No. If you ask me if I am a healthy teenager, I would say yes. I usually get the cold once a year if not at all. Coincidence? Maybe, but this is not just me, it is also with two of my three other sisters. the outlier that gets sick the most out of all four of us is the one who received vaccinations. My mom said she was fooled into giving my older sister all the forms of hepatitis vaccines when my sis was a baby. A few days later, my sister gets a cold as a newborn which is extremely rare.
I, myself, am a more individualist sort of person I guess I could say. I don’t think I’m a stubborn person but I tend not to rely on people other than myself in most situations. If you want things done right or the way you want them to be done, then you’ll do them yourself right? That’s more of the kind of person I am. Two months ago I wasn’t able to walk because of my foot. I didn’t take advantage of my classmates by asking them to get my papers for me and stuff like that. I went ahead, got my crutches and got my paper myself. I didn’t see my personally inflicted injury as an excuse to be catered by my kind classmates in any way. Of course I’m not saying that I didn’t appreciate their kindness for offering but, I felt that I could still do my own thing and proceeded in doing so. (thanks for those who tried to help :)
ReplyDeleteIn order to agree with vaccines, you need to know their function. There is some truth to “vaccines are only used to make money” but not always. I can’t remember the last time I’ve had the measles, whooping cough, tetanus, polio, or any other contagious illness due to the fact that I’ve been vaccinated for them. I’m sure you all know this or at least should know this already but, when injected with a vaccination for whatever illness, your immune system takes in part of the virus and builds its defenses to fight it and successfully prevent in future encounters with that virus. Sure you may not have been vaccinated for polio at birth but, when that outbreak occurs, don’t say you weren’t fairly warned.
I countlessly hear that people boast about themselves as an individualist who has been on there own for the deration of their lives, feeding off of their own hands, but I realized that unless you’re Tarzan, who lives in the rainforest secluded from any human interaction, there is collectivism in one’s life. I know that America in its own is well known for its individualistic government and views compared to other prosperous nations, but realize that even before the birth of our great nation that the pilgrims and settlers that settled to make the America’s their home, but they had to first work with each other to make a successful town and second, they had to ask for advice from the neighboring American Indians. I found it that in that situation they were completely collectivistic, if they wanted to survive in the untamed America’s.
ReplyDeleteI find out that in today’s terms that individualism and collectivism doesn’t go against each other, implied by the title, but they are intertwined to make the average American or maybe the whole world. For instance, if I had a person who in essence was the most self-reliant person in America who lived anywhere in Civilization, he wouldn’t completely be individualistic, because unless he has a farm for every animal and crop on earth, how is he going to obtain all his food needs without other people to manufacture it for that individual. People might then argue that there is something called transcendentalism, but remember that the reason you know what transcendentalism even exist is because of language the most Collective creation that represent society and that basically define us as humans.
Like everything in life we need balance because like the consumption of water will make your live healthy but an over dose can also kill a person, balance of having individualism and Collectivism is essential. Most people should have individualism as in when person want to move up in life as in to obtain a better education. A person can’t always rely on someone else for money and knowledge so there must be individualism in one’s life too. I feel like the debate on individualism v. Collectivism is just completely absurd because most people need both.
Ok let's skip the individualist vs collectivist argument. Can we talk about this article? Americans really think they run this place. First of all, you can opt out of a standardized test when YOU can come up with a better way to test every child for proficiency. I'm not saying that a standardized test the way we know it is the right way to go. But please don't go bashing educators and education itself and think that it's ok to pull your child out of these. You ant to not have your kid take like a 3 hour test (which is nothing) then come up with a better solution to pick out the useful kids from the useless kids. Secondly, please please please just vaccinate your dang kids. They get them when they're like 6 months old and they don't even remember the pain of the needle. Do you want the plague and polio and measles to break out again be used your ignorant self was too proud to get a vaccination? People around here think that if something isn't benefitting them then they do not give a crap about it. Which is one of the most ignorant things that a person can do; blatantly ignore the needs of other people. Therefore I don't know if you would call me an individualist or a collectivist. I think that everyone has a right to express themselves and what not but people need to stop and think about every. single. angle of something BEFORE they decide that they're right. People need to take into consideration the implications of their actions before they make them and not after when it's too late. (The testing thing still gets me. I cannot express my emotions for this topic). But there are many many people in America who can not see past their nose and they continue to make ignorant choices. I guess you could call me more of a collectivist. But not just that the whole is greater than the individual but that the individual needs to look out for other individuals. America being as large as it is everyone can't be preoccupied with themselves. It's purely selfishness, ignorance, and stupidity.
ReplyDeleteSophie, you're a humanist: this is a concept much bigger than individualism or collectivism.
DeleteWell Clark I would like to start off by saying that this blog post is by far the craziest and very interesting... I sit here in the Atlantic County Library, thinking, what is life, looking through books looking for the answer, but you sir, you answered my question the best by giving me the definition of the word itself before I even saw the fact that Bas asked you, thank you! Anyway, getting to the serious topic of today, "Individualism vs. Collectivism"... I honestly have mixed feelings for all this "Big Man", for example in the section of the article called, "The Selfish Gene", Donna Dickenson says, "You can see that the top 10 causes of death have changed from mostly being infectious diseases to diseases you mostly get as an individual, like cancer and heart disease". I thought that what she said was pretty interesting because it just goes to show that vaccines in a way could have aided in the elimination of diseases that are infectious and now the predominantly deadly diseases are ones you are, in a way, born with. The other thing that almost acts like Devil's Advocate is what Tom V said, how he never got additional vaccines and yet he has never got any of the major vaccine sicknesses. Lastly, I think you should be able to opt out of whatever you want to opt out to that's being pushed upon you- to a certain extent that is!
ReplyDeletethanks for the shoutout rob haha
Deleteugh, do i really have to do this
ReplyDeletedude i thought we were only suppose to be writing a sentence and everyone's writing novels hahah
DeleteFRFR!! kartick and his never ending annoyance. And all these kids with chapter books. lololl what ev, i tried. just write some BS. Read mine lol
DeleteToo many abbreviations. Confused.
Deletei think that society is a mix of both individualism and collectivism, in other words one can not exist with out the other. To be an individual means to separate yourself from the group and strive to stand out on your own, while collectivism is striving for the advancement of everyone. those who follow the path of individualism seek a way to be different from the rest, original. But can you ever truly be original? all of your ideas, thoughts, opinions,decisions etc. all stem from someone elses ideas. who you are is loosely based on the identity of others. people who follow the collectivism path make the group their priority over themselves, they see potential in unity opposed to a divided society.
ReplyDeletein this world there has to be both collectivism and individualism, they coexist. when you have an individual who steps out of the box and "pushes the envelope" you are merely seeing a reflection of the collective group.
Well since I’ve been forced to read and also respond to this pointless blog. No. No I didn’t enjoy reading that article. I hate reading about politics. But if I had to chose one thing that I liked it would be Benjamin Franklins quote. "If we do not hang together, most assuredly, we will all hang separately"... He said this while signing the declaration of Independence in 1776. This quote means that if they did not band together in the fight for the independence they would all be hanged separately for treason by the British government. I think society then and society now are similar. They both have a mix of individualism and collectivism. In other words they feed off of each other. Many people want to stand out and be different from the rest. Many people like to stick up for what they know is right but they do it in groups instead of individually- like Franklin. So yeah… hopefully this makes sense. I kinda wrote down some BS. :)
ReplyDeleteYou had me at Benjamin Franklin. Also, please do not use the phrase, "BS," on the blog.
DeleteThe prevalence of the individualistic attitude within the American people shows in the growth of libertarianism. These people believe that they should be allowed to do and say what they want without interference from the government. To an extent, I completely agree with this sentiment. Standardized tests are a waste of time. Honestly, the graders couldn't care less about what you write on those things. A perfect example of this would be the biology proficiency exam that everyone is forced to take in May. In one of the open-ended questions, I blatantly asked if the graders "even read this far" and managed to slip in a not-so nice word (it was spelled backwards, of course). The state responded by giving me a perfect score. Wait...what ? This showed me that I could probably write anything and it wouldn't matter. I would rather be taught life skills ! Like filing your taxes or balancing a checkbook. It's ridiculous that something graded so carelessly and not at all representative of my character or work ethic, holds so much weight in the academic world. If you want the ideal student, look at my GPA. Check out my extracurriculars ! My community service hours should hold more weight than a 2400 on the SAT. I don't understand why America's most prestigious colleges will jump at the chance to have a student who has probably only mastered the memorization and recitation aspects of school. The PARCC test is ridiculous and if possible, I would have no problem boycotting it. Standardized testing should definitely be optional because the government has no right to control that.
ReplyDeleteVaccination, on the other hand, should be controlled. Obviously, some people will not be able to receive vaccinations due to pre-existing conditions but everyone else should be vaccinated. I understand that the idea of injecting a weakened or dead virus into your body is really crazy but the likelihood of experiencing any of the serious side effects is very slim. In fact, there is a 1 in 1 million chance that a child will experience extreme side effects caused by the DTaP vaccine. I really like those chances as opposed to a child contracting diphtheria, pertussis, or tetanus and spreading it to the other children where that child has a 1 in 10 chance of dying. I am all for individualism until it has the ability to negatively effect the people around you. If children are being put at risk due to a few misconceptions about vaccines then something has to be done about that. Sure, there are lots of side effects but I am willing to bet that the same people will give their child Tylenol. Tylenol may cause serious, possible fatal, liver disease. Even though the side effects are pretty brutal, it's totally worth it.
Life is finding the balance between risk and reward.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteClark, I'm going to be honest with you. I only read the first two paragraphs and I do not know what to say about this whole collectivism and individualism thing. But I do want to talk about the American people and how infuriating they are. Americans are very "individual" and "original" and everyone is all about being yourself and being different and being self sufficient. But really, everyone is the same! No one is different! And if you are different you are cast out and labeled. Also, Americans are dumb. We cannot be trusted to make decisions because we'll end up killing ourselves. Our founding fathers made this a democratic republic for that reason. If the nation was directly in our hands a black hole would open up somehow and we would be swallowed up. Being able to opt out of getting your child vaccinated is an example of how we should not be able to make our own decisions. UH HELLO??? Why oh why oh why why why would you not vaccinate your child. Stupid. Dumb. Anyway, here's my piece: (book of LUDUCRIS, praise herion) The average American is just that: average. They have basic knowledge, they are self centered, and they cannot make their own decisions. This has nothing to do with the blog topic I think, but I do not care.
ReplyDeleteSide note: This new book is the bomb.com and Margaret Atwood is a genius.
Another side note: totally kidding about the black hole, but you get the idea.
The End
blocks, stones, senseless things
DeleteBeing self-reliant is a skill that everyone should have. You shouldn’t continuously rely on others to give you stuff when you are perfectly capable of taking care of yourself. Being a self-reliant person is all part of being an individual. However being self reliant does not mean you should be selfish. Sometimes people cannot take care of themselves because of an illness or an injury. And if America was a bunch of selfish people who never cared about one another, well, we wouldn’t be the powerful, patriotic nation we are today; we may not even be a nation. (We’re called the UNITED States of America for a reason!) Without us sticking together we probably would have fallen apart by now honestly. So really it’s not about being one or the other or which is better, individualism or collectivism; my point is to be successful, everyone has to be both. You can’t always rely on others, because everyone’s not always going to be there for you; but you cannot be selfish and not help others when you can. We must all be both self-reliant and able to work with others. Although I’m all for making your own choices on what you want to do and what you shouldn’t, I don’t really appreciate the fact that people refuse to do things that will better themselves and the rest of the country. Standardized testing for example; yes they are very annoying and take forever and we probably make a bigger deal out of them than we should. But the tests are a good way to show what students are learning and what needs to be changed. Also, do people really not want to vaccinate their children? Is it that big of a deal? Why wouldn’t you vaccinate your kid when the shot will benefit your kid as well as everyone else? That actually makes me a bit mad that people would be so closed minded and not get their kids vaccinated. I guess my point is that everyone should be able to take care of themselves but they should also be a team player and work for and with others.
ReplyDeleteThe current society we live in is in a constant fluctuation between the individual and the community aspect of living. The article “Of Me I Sing: Americans Construct an Opt-Out Society," gives examples of ways our society is based on both individualism and collectivism. When the article talks about standardize testing I found it very interesting because I could directly relate to what they were saying. The article was talking about how the scores don’t fairly represent the individual student, which they don’t, but how the individuals score helps the collective by getting/losing the school money depending on how well everyone does on the test. I personally believe that standardize testing is awful and shouldn’t be given, any halfwit can memorize something they wrote down and regurgitate it on one of those dreaded scantron sheets. I am a living example of this, I am and always was terrible at science and last year in honors biology I had a 98% every marking period, and I can assure you I learned absolutely nothing. All last year I pretty much had no idea what was going on in that class but I would study the PowerPoints that Ms. Mastromarco printed out for us each chapter until I had almost all of it memorized and passed the tests, if you were to give me a test now on something major we learned last year I would most likely bomb it. This is why I don’t think these standardized tests accurately represent student as an individual. As a collective I still don’t think they represent us properly because there is such a gap difference between AP students who try hard in school and do their work and CP student who couldn’t care less if they got a C in a class. So, I mean, I’m pretty torn on whether we are more individualist or collectivist as a nation and a species, you need the one to have the other no doubt (like the vaccines, if and individual doesn’t do get them for whatever dumb reason they affect other people as a collective because they are now causing other people harm by their individual decision)
ReplyDeleteP.S. Mr. Clark I have a link that expressed the way you feel about people not wanting to get vaccines but it isn’t the most appropriate, I really wanted to share it though. Just figured the blog isn’t the best place.
Oh, I saw it. It's great, but it does not belong on my blog.
DeleteWell Clark I am finally happy with the blog we have to read and answer to because I think of this every day I think people are both individualists and collectivists, but at certain points in time for both. Everyone is trying to be an individual and run their path and accomplish what they want to do in life. Each person has their own views, personal needs, and how they think or deal with things. But, people also follow people or a big group. I agree with a lot of my classmates in their above writings especially Maren's blog post when she said, "And if you are different you are cast out and labeled." I myself am friends with a variety of people and with different groups of people. I know sometimes I go along with what my friends do and say because it's just how people are sometimes they just go with the flow, but i can truly say I am myself and do not let anyone get to me. In my large group many if not all think of me a certain way because of how I personally deal with things and how i think. I say what I need to say when I feel it's needed and I feel the way I feel because that's who I am and who I am thriving for because I am an individualist. I am a lot of the times labeled and a outcast for who I am even with my best friends but although it might not look like it I am going down my own path and I stick to what I thick and do not care what others say otherwise or how stupid I sound to them. Oh and Clark I am on both sides with the vaccinations for everyone.
ReplyDelete"both sides with the vaccinations for everyone"--I am not sure I follow you.
DeleteUltimately there is so much to be said about individualism and collectivism. If you really put America into perspective you’ll see that everyone is an individual but is put together as a group. We ourselves are able to speak for ourselves, think, and work for ourselves but there is only so much one can do alone. Coming across new people everyday you’ll see that one may not be able to stand alone, or there are some people who primarily prefer to be alone. But there is nothing wrong with that. I’m not sure why this has been made into such an argument. For one thing, it’s important to know when to take responsibility for yourself and your own actions. Not all the time can things be blamed on other people.
ReplyDeleteThe term “community” has become such a commonly used word with multiple meanings. A community is a group of people who live in the same area, those who share a common interest, or could also be known as a group of nations. The paragraph, “Limits To Self-Reliance” is what I feel the main idea of this article is about. When they state their question, “Do we define community as the people who happen to live within a small radius of our homes, or as people we identify with because of shared values, status and interests?” A community is both a small area of living, and people who share common interests. It’s not our job to worry about how others go about with living their lives, or what they see a community as. That is what infuriates me the most about people. Some choose to live so complicated when it’s much easier to live in simplicity. Some people do not know how to be their own person, they’re followers. It’s okay to be different, but on the other hand it’s hard to be different when our society today is cruel people always having something to say about people who aren’t “followers.” That’s where individuality steps in, you have to know when to be your own person and do what makes you happy.
After rereading the article multiple times my mind is a bit lost. I'm not quite to sure what to think other than that based off of the article "Of Me I Sing: Americans Construct an Opt-Out Society" it's clear NPR focuses on two completely different thoughts. Individualism and Collectivism. As Americans we are presented with many choices throughout our lives. Also, as citizens living in a country based off of freedom we are able to speak our mind, think what we want and for the most part do what we want. So it's hard to say that many people aren't individualists. However, it's also hard to say that we all don't have a little collectivism in us too. It's almost impossible to say that at one point in our lives we haven't relied on someone else for help. In the end, I'd say that people fulfill aspects of both individualism and collectivism qualitites.
ReplyDeleteOverall, collectivism and individualism can go hand-in-hand. Everyone is an individual and will always do what would better themselves. Just as Mr. Sera would say, "Self-interest is always the answer." But for every individual there is a group they belong to and even if a person is an outcast; they will always be able to find someone that can relate to there thoughts and interests. For example, there are a bunch of people that believe we should have standardized tests and a bunch that think we should not. Each person has their own opinion on which they would rather have, but collectively, each opinion has their own group.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I think standardized tests are a waste of time. I took the NJASK test for so many years and i wouldn't be able to tell you a single thing that those tests have done for me. Even if i do amazingly well i would still be in the same classes that i am in today, because overall it comes down to how you do in your classes each year. So personally, i think they are absolutely useless and it wouldn't matter whether or not we took some test every year that tells you "how smart you are" because i know how smart i am and the abilities i have. As long as what you're doing in life makes you feel like you have contributed to society or just makes you happy in general; you should be fine, no test should be able to tell you if you're good enough or not.
To be completely honest, I read the article one time but didn't really read it partly because I'm tired and partly because I was more interested in everyones comments. I see no value in getting upset over the topic of individualism versus collectivism because one would not exist without the other. People are always going to be individualists at some points, and collectivists at another. People are always going to need people to get somewhere in life; one cannot climb Mount Everest alone. Life is kind of like Mount Everest, "..it's a very mean and nasty place, it will beat you down to your knees permanently if you let it.."-(Rocky Balboa) This is one of my favorite quotes because I believe it to be so true. No one goes through life alone, yes there will always be moments of self-reliance and independence because that's what defines personalties and makes everyone different.In reality though, no ones different, we all go through the motions of life and in the long run, you need others to survive; even though you don't really survive life itself you just kind of go on and on until you don't anymore. And I have no idea if any of this makes sense or if it even has to do with the article, but that's how I feel.
ReplyDeleteThumbs up for the Rocky quote!
DeleteCollectivism and individualism are both equally important. If collectivism didn't exist organizations and our government wouldn't be able to carry out their functions and fix whats wrong. But individualism is equally important because if people didn't act on behalf of themselves our country wouldn't exist. The founding fathers didn't separate from England for the good of the American people, they wanted more money and more freedom so they could live a life without a king demanding their money. That is collectivism and individualism are equally important.
ReplyDeleteIndividualism and collectivism are related to each other. They feed off of one another. You need to know what an individualist is in order to be a collectivist. I am not a fan of politics at all (reason why i suck at government) but there was a load of information to gather from this article. A part that I liked was the "We the People" section. The Constitutions first word is we. A group of individualists gathered up into a big collection where all of our ideas and interests merge into one. That is America to me. One large collection of ideas. This article relates individualists and collectivists well and I gathered that one lives off the other. Also that Individualism or Collectivism would not exist if one did not have the idea of the other. So these two topics rely and depend on peoples knowledge on the other.
ReplyDeleteAmericans collectively believe in the spirit of individualism.
DeleteIn life you will always run into a situation where you will need a helping hand. There is no way around it. I like to relate this to baseball because it is a sport that requires so much teamwork and cooperation. One great player will not make a baseball team a great team. You could put a Hall of Famer on a below average High School team and that team will still get beat when they face good competition. The point I am trying to make is that no one is too good to make it on their own.
ReplyDeleteOne part of the passage that struck me was that as much as we want to opt out and be individual its in our human nature to be collective and come together as one. Humans need each other to survive and thrive therefore when individuals opt out it creates new ideas. These ideas grow and gain support because it is our instinct to follow others with same ideas as ours. This will inadvertently turn the people with that idea into collectivist. For example when America opted out of Monarchy through the revolution they had the new idea of Democracy. At that time Monarchy was the only type of government known, but as Democracy flourished in America other countries joined the movement becoming Democratic. Now Democracy is a collectivist idea. Everything starts as a individual idea and ends up as a collectivist idea. Furthermore it is a never ending cycle. In conclusion individualism brings change, and ironically brings people together.
ReplyDeletePerhaps they are not even cyclical; they are inseparable.
DeleteWhen you look at the definitions of individualism versus collectivism, it is a distinct fact that the two are antonyms. However, the contradiction is that both act in the same way. Psychologically, the individual consists of a form of beliefs or ideas that all stem from various pieces in their life. Their life, their experiences, their family, their friends, their education, their mentors, their jobs, their books, and even their language are completely different factors that all influence the mind. Yet, doesn’t collectivism seem to have the same definition as individualism if you look at it differently? Collectivism is only many different pieces of a puzzle all coming together in an attempt to make everything fit perfectly. Sometimes all the pieces fit and sometimes we aren’t so lucky. Nevertheless, there is ultimately no difference between an American citizen and the United States of America. Both use their extensive knowledge of their history to plan out the future. America is only blown up on a more massive scale where what brain cells are to the individual, people are to the country. Thus, collectivism would not exist without individualism but collectivism is what allows the individual to thrive. What is America? It is a group of individual people who came together and formed one massive individual strong and standing country. Without the motives and strong-will of the citizens, nothing would exist. America is what WE THE PEOPLE believe it to be. American citizens have the will to go their own way and create what they believe to be right, and thus the country does the same exact thing. That is why the American system works so well.
ReplyDeleteIn reference to the political idiots trying to standardize tests and remove proper structure from the already properly running country, I have a few things to say. Standardized tests are not something that one should be able to “opt-out of,” they should not exist in the first place. Their sole purpose is to attempt to prove success in the education system, yet intelligence can not be measure by a number out of 2400. Too much pressure is put on a single test to determine ones future and life. Standardized tests are simply a way to legally control funding for people and schools by damaging the system. These morally-corrupt exams do not make people smarter or more educated. They actually make them less intelligent by trying to fit everyones brain into the same mold. When you constantly try to bang a round peg into a square hole, eventually need to find a new round hole before too much damage is done to your peg. To be honest, in my opinion, standardized testing has already created a less innovative society where everyone is dependent on everyone else. I often fear that this huge loss of individualism will one day force the whole American collectivism to fall through. People need to learn to be independent, thoughtful and confident in what they believe in. In the article, the author raises the question, “Do we define community as the people who happen to live within a small radius of our homes, or as people we identify with because of shared values, status and interests?” I completely believe that community is people with similar moral system as you. However, it is not understood that before communities can be formed, people must be individuals. Individualism is and will always be the essential factor to success because it is what allows collectivism. America is what we know it to be because of the individuals who had the will and intellect to know what it took to make a strong country, and then the courage to do it.
Success will belong exclusively to the creative, daring free-thinkers.
DeleteAfter some thought I not only believe that individualism and collectivism both exist in society but also go hand and hand in every person. I cannot say that every person is either an individualist or a collectivist, or at least I cannot say that about myself. I have been involved in team activities and sports all my life as well as been independent at the same time (such as in my school work and studies). A perfect example of what I am saying is (and I know you are probably tired of hearing me talk about it) marching band. Marching band is one of the biggest team efforts I have ever been involved in. Let me just say that if all we thought about was ourselves then we would not be making pictures and forms, but rather dots on a field. We all have to worry about our own spots on the field, making it to our set in the correct number of counts, and playing the right music as well as considering the people around us and the forms we are creating. Along with being team based marching band also has an individualistic side. For example, no one is going to tell me when to practice or how to practice. I do so for myself, to improve. Plus, on the field no one is going to tell me when to go or what to do. I have to learn myself and have a desire to learn it. This is similar to all team sports in that everyone has an individual role and responsibility while also considering the roles of ones teammates and the goals of the team. No sport is either all individual or team responsibility but a combination of both to make a system the function well. I believe it’s the same with society. Not everyone is fully individualist or collectivist, but a little bit of both so life can function.
ReplyDeleteI like the marching band, analogy, Miller.
DeleteAlrighty Clark, like the majority of your students on your blog tonight i also did not fully understand what the writer was saying. SO, I am going to relate this topic to myself because I am a pretty generic American so I feel like people might be able to relate to me. If not i apologize in advance, again this is my opinions and my own personal view points. Okay, the definition of Individualism that Mister Clark so graciously provided above states that it is the habit that one has when they want to do something by themselves and be in full control. I know that I am a full-blown individualist. I have severe trust issues when it comes to other people. If I am doing a group project it quickly becomes the Sam Cronick project because I am not able to just let people dily-dally and take their time because 9 times out of 10 the project wont get done or we are rushing last minute to finish. Of course their is an exceptional amount of people that do their fair share of work and i can rely on them but they are few and far between. And speaking of these group projects...is this not collectivism? It seems as though it is. So does that mean it would be an antonym of Individualism because based off the definition, collectivism is a great fear of mine. However, in bigger situations (not just a little group project) i may have to be apart of collectivism because it simply is too much for me to handle. So when relating this back to America and government it seems as though people want to do things by themselves and be the strong, independent American they are...until the times get tough and they get scared and ask for everyones help. So is that what it means to be American? All bark and no bite? Then again I didnt really understand what this blog post meant so this entire thing could be complete nonesense. Just me rambeling about things i sort of understand. So I apologize if this isnt what you wanted Clark. And I apologize to my fellow Americans if I have offended you. I'm sure you have plenty of bite.
ReplyDeleteIt's good to ramble in these comments. Ramble on.
DeleteSo, this article was kinda a struggle for me to understand but im going to try and gather some thoughts. But, I do agree that individualism is a big problem in our society. Like the article states, most people are obsessed with their rights and their choices and their freedom, which are all things that we are entitled to. However, I feel as though America can be very individualistic. For example, the article says there are people actually protesting standardized testing in schools. Don't get me wrong, I am soo not looking forward to that PARCC test next year, but it's just something that has to be done. The testing shows the information that students have learned and haven't learned, therefore creating a focus on the things that students need to work on and making it possible for more kids to go to college. (Clark, I know you completely disagree with that but I just needed something to say). Collectivism is also present in our society. It is true that Americans mostly do their own thing, but in times of distress and helplessness, American citizens come together to help each other out. This was demonstrated many times throughout American history, such as Hurricane Sandy and Hurricane Katrina. So, yes, it is true that Americans can be all about themselves but it is also true that when it comes down to it, we are always around to help someone in need. I believe that life is about balance and in our society, individualism and collectivism are pretty well balanced.
ReplyDeleteI don't completely disagree, Lainey. The idea of a standardized test is quite logical. We need to have measurable goals as educators. However, tests aren't everything.
DeleteAfter reading that article I have come to the conclusion that most Americans are for individualism. I feel like everyone is so selfish about everything. If something is happening in the world and it does not concern or interest people they will "opt out". For example, parents and vaccinations. I honestly cannot think of one reason why you would not get your child vaccinated! Do they not realize that they are putting everyone else at risk if their child has an illness that could have been prevented? So stupid. Anyway, just another example of how people are only concerned with themselves. Personally, I think that in your life if you isolate yourself and believe that you can do everything for yourself you are wrong. You wouldn't be alive and going to school if it weren't for other people. Im kind of wishy washy on this though because I do think that you can't always rely on people because no one can be fully trusted. I mean we are all human. Oh gosh I don't even know what side I'm on because they are both important in life. So in conclusion both collectivism and individualism are important, I'm tired, and get your kids vaccinated!
ReplyDeleteAmerica is a mix of both individualiam and collectivism. Without one you wouldn't have the other so they feed off of each other. I feel like we're all selfish in one way or another. If something does not benefit us we most likely will not do it even if it helps other people. The whole thing about not getting your child vaccinated is ridiculous! By not vaccinating you're putting not only your child in danger of catching a disease but also other people. But of course they don't think about other people just themselves and what they want to do. Now to collectivism. Most people want to do everything themselves and don't want to rely on others but in reality you have to rely on someone eventually. When times are good everyone is fine doing their own thing but as soon as things start to go down hill they need someones help. We are all our own people with our ideas and thoughts but at the end of day we can all come together and help each other out or atleast we should anyway.
ReplyDeleteHonestly individualism and collectivism are both essential you can't have one without the other. In the article "Of me I Sing: Americans Construct an Opt-Out Society" it is stated "there's no way to do it you fixing your infrastructure and me fixing mine. " I completely agree with this statement. However, that doesn't mean that you should always rely on someone else to help you because someone's not always going to be there to help you with all your troubles. I think that there needs to be a balance between the two. Also, in the article they talk about how standardized are a waste of time and stress children I completely 100% agree because it's not fair for a student to work hard and get good grades only to be judged by the score of a test you have to take. The people who grade the tests most likely don't give a crap about you and will grade it based in what they believe "sounds good." How Is that fair? But then again I don't think that we should be able to just opt out of something just because we don't agree with it. For example, some people don't believe in vaccines and you wouldn't want them opting out of getting those so we shouldn't be able to opt out of having to take standardized test that although are a waste of time something we still need to have. I don't know which side I'm on because the tests are really stupid but I still think we need to have them.
ReplyDeleteSo, I didn't really get a full grasp on what this article was saying, but I think I got most of it. I do agree with "Americans want to go their own way...". Really, you can't seem to trust anyone nowadays because they always end up doing their own thing or they can turn on you at any point. I think it's safe to say that I'm an individualist and I rely on myself to do most things, what's so wrong about that? But with collectivism, the group has the priority over the individual, focusing on the community, or society which is very different from individualism, but yet so similar. It's hard to have collectivism if everyone doesn't agree and can't get along. But, isn't that how we're supposed to be? You can't get along with everyone, and you can't agree with everyone,but if we could, then we would end up with America being a nation of robots. If everyone agrees with each other, no one would have their own opinion. Sure, some people won't agree to get vaccinated, some people don't want to take tests, but you can't change someone's mind once it's already set because they won't care most of the time. But at the same time, we (might) also need collectivism in order to get things done and keep society intact. It's better if you can rely on yourself and if you need help, obviously you would get help (with the exception of those stubborn people who refuse to ask for help because they believe they can everything on their own aka me) and then go back to whatever it is that they were doing. I know I'm jumping all over the place here, and some things may seem contradictory, bear with me here, but I can't get all my ideas together since these two topics are completely different yet one in the same. All I'm trying to say is that you can rely on yourself as much as you want to without being selfish or ignorant. I don't know if this is the answer you were looking for but it's something.
ReplyDeleteOh, and sorry this post is late, Clark. I thought yesterday was Tuesday.
It's an undercooked article, for sure.
ReplyDelete